Your partner is not an excuse. The same way I wont accept "I was drunk" as an excuse for bad behaviour, I refuse to accept "My partner made me late" as a valid excuse for being late.
Punctuality lately seems to be something you should be grateful for, rather than a fair expectation of good behaviour and decent etiquette. I almost wonder why I bother to set a time to meet with people anymore, as "meet at 8 o'clock" seems to mean "meet whenever you feel like after 8 o'clock".
The reason lack of punctuality is rude, the reasons it's highly insulting, is that you're telling the person you are about to meet that they are unimportant, that they are not worth consideration, and that their time is less important than your time.
When I am due to meet someone at say, 8 o'clock at say Piccadilly Circus I go into reverse planning mode. So Piccadilly to Waterloo is 15 mins, 5 mins waiting for a tube, 5 mins getting to the tube, 15 mins train, 5 mins waiting for the train, 5 mins getting to the train. I then know I need to leave my flat at a minimum 50 mins before 8. Mentally I'll bank on being ready some time around just under an hour before. As I get closer to needing to get ready I'll look up train times. I see their is a train at 19:15 and 19:08. I'll then leave my flat to make the 19:08, so I have a contingency of the next train should I for some reason miss the first train.
I do this reverse planning by default. I don't even think about it much. I just kind of background process it. All of which is a bit pointless as I'll then spend anywhere between 15 and 45 minutes sitting in the bar by myself looking like a right numpty.
Look I'm not saying I'm never late, but most of the time I'm on time or early. I pride myself on it. Possibly because my mother brought me up right, and partly because I organise a lot of things and hence it's even ruder if I'm the one who's late. But also partly just because it's really rude to be late.
But I've noticed everyone else tends to be late these days. It used to be just one or two of my friends who were perpetual offenders. But recently just about all of my friends have coupled up, and everyone's always late.
And as much as everyone thinks it's not that big a deal, it is. If it was a flight you had to make, or a job interview, or a date (before you were coupled), you would have made it. Because it was important to you. But you might as well say to my face "Sevitz, you're less important than this email I'm sending, this tv I'm watching, the fact I haven't bothered planning so that I can meet you on time, because quite frankly you're not worth the effort". At least that will save me sitting in a pub stewing and looking like a right loser for an half an hour.
You see the problem is, is that couples if they end up waiting have each other to wait with. So they forget pretty quickly the impact of being late. They don't forget how rude it is, because they don't notice other people doing it.
I'm tired of compensating for other peoples rudeness, and I'm tired of waiting for people. So even though it's going to annoy me internally, if you are someone who is continually late or has a reputation for it, I'm stopping to bother to make the effort. I'll arrive when I like, and I'm going to finish watching the TV before I leave.
Of course none of you will notice, as you'll be late anyway.
1. Gordon
ALL HAIL Rev. Sevitz!! ALL HAIL!!
I had a big long comment written out but it all boils down to this.
I TOTALLY AGREE.
As a couple, Louise and I are usually early for things. Like 30mins early, sometimes more. THAT’S how paranoid we are about being late. It’s probably not that healthy come to think of it..
2. Adrian
Thanks. You are the kind of couple I would enjoy going out with.
It really annoys me, even more than people being late, is that people not realising how rude being late is (especially regularly) and how dismissive it is of someones else’s time and importance.
3. Andrew
Since moving to a big city (NY and then London) I have found that agreeing to meet at a time is an indication of the time you will be there. When I was living in a smaller city where there were less variables in getting somewhere, the times were more exact. Big cities require more flexibility and understanding between friends otherwise people will get stressed and die young of a heartattack or something.
4. Jack
I think you’re annoyed when you have to wait for someone and you’re annoyed that you’re single, but couples aren’t late or inconsiderate any more or less than anyone else - if you want to take out your frustration on some kind of coupley behaviour, pick on those that do that nauseatingly sloppy kissing on public transport.
5. Adrian
Jack, I have found that otherwise reliable people become less so as a couple, as they have far less seldom end up waiting by themselves so becomes less aware of the impact being late causes. That said I know people who when single were just as inconsiderate and their behavior hasn’t changed. However blaming being late on a partner, doesn’t become an acceptable excuse, although it is given as one.
Andrew, I find less of a cause being the size of the city as more so the attitude of the person to punctuality. Regardless of the city size, some people manage to be on time more often than not and some people are always late. Repeat behavior is an indication of not leaving extra time to mitigate the city size, not the city size itself.
I’m not talking about the fact people are late. That happens. I’m bothered by the fact I’m mostly on time, and more and more people seem mostly late. I don’t think thats a lack of flexibility, but a lack of interest in people trying to be on time. Which comes from seeing your own time as more important or valuable than someone else’s.
6. Adrian
And Jack I agree totally about the sloppy kissing in public. Gah. Should be criminalised along with parking over two spaces and given the death penalty.
7. Jack
Transport for London should provide large complimentary bags on buses and tubes for other people to put over their heads.
8. Adrian
Just to be clear … whose heads are we bagging, our own or the couples?
9. Matt
I stand by what I said in the various emails between you, me and Dan over the past day or so. You’d probably be late too, especially if you were making a video.
10. Lyle
Jack / Adrian - so long as TfL also provide some nice cord or equivalent, so we can make those bags airtight… (On the couples, obv., not on the observers)
Justifiable homicide right there.
11. Lyle
Anyway, as for lateness, I completely agree. I’m similar, and always turn up - at worst - on time, and usually early.
Mind you, I tend to be aware of the crapness of others, and also bung a book in a pocket, so that waiting isn’t entirely unproductive.
I don’t (well, I didn’t ‘til now - <sarcasm>thanks, Sevitz.</sarcasm>) perceive other people’s lateness as being indicative of disdain/contempt towards me or my time, I just tend to assume that people are crap, and can’t tell the time and/or plan anything. In fact, I just tend to assume that most people can’t find their own arses with both hands and a flashlight. But then, I’m a cynic.
12. graybo
Are new couples worse than established couples? My theory is that new couples will generally be late due to rubbing their wobbly bits against each other, whereas established couples know that the novelty of that has worn off a bit and they can wait until the weekend/after the party/until they can get in the bathroom together once they get to your house.
Of course, those of us who are couples-with-child have a whole new set of very valid excuses. Trust me - vomit or poo on your party clothes does tend to make you late.
13. Adrian
I don’t think it’s new/old/babied couples that are the issues. But the general change in perception of non couples.
Part of the smug marrieds vs singletons gumpf is just the way each set stops perceiving the other sets reality. Queue waffle.
14. Tot
Surely each couple would statistically be more likely to be late than if they had arrived as an individual due to their arrival together being dependent.
So what you are saying is that to fight these odds, couples should allow even more contingency and therefore should spend more time waiting for you in most cases?
15. Adrian
No I’m saying couples are less aware about the impact arriving late has because they are already tied up in each others time.
I’ve notice people are less likely to be late for their partner than for a friend. Because they (perhaps subconscious) evaluation of the impact their lateness has is greater for a partner than for a friend.
And I’m saying being late (continually) and blaming it on a partner is not an acceptable excuse.
Maybe this isn’t about couples and just about people being rude and not considering tardiness rude. IT IS. I just feel couples do this more than single people.
16. Gordon
Actually, thinking about it, I don’t think it is a couples thing.
One mate of mine is notoriously late, always has been, before and after he met his partner.
Hmm a sample of one, not a great argument there…
17. The B
a) totally agree about the sloppy kissing. It’s the audibility of it that gets me - you look away (or put your/their heads in a paper bag) and you can still HEAR it. b) I’m one of those frequently late people. Ok so it may be about thinking my time is more important than theirs but not consciously. It’s about being disorganised and always wanting to fit more in, and resenting giving time to Ken and TFL’s delays, not resenting giving time to your friend. If leaving earlier meant more time with THEM all well and good, but for me it’s the fact that invariably it means more time on the tube in a jam. c) One argument is flawed - that it’s about your time being less important to them because they’d be on time for job interviews / flights / dates. Um, take it from someone who knows: just because it is a given for you that one is on time for these things, that doesn’t mean it’s a given for us bad late lot. Admittedly I caught the flight I nearly missed recently, just like hopefully I manage to avoid totally pissing off my friends most of the time, but I was definitely MUCH later than I’d meant to be. d) Where did the whole thing about couples come in? I have never noticed that and really don’t think it’s true. Many of my couple friends are very good at being on time (they’ll always have something to do and someone to talk to if they’re early) and singles are very bad (maybe too used to being self obsessed? I include myself). Honestly I think that’s a personal prejudice talking.
18. Adrian
b) But if other peoples time mattered, you could make the effort to be less disorganized. The time yo spend on the tube is about the same if you leave 10 mins earlier and arrive on time or 10 mins later and arrive late
c) But people do tend to make more of an effort for jobs/flights/dates because excuses about why don’t wash as well. I might get pissed off but a date might not give you a second shot. Vested interest is higher
d) People who manage to be on time as singles becomes more focused on partner and less on not being rude. Plus blaming someone else’s disorganisation is a poor excuse for always being late.
19. Destructor
I do this reverse planning by default. I don’t even think about it much.
Really? Cause you sure seem to go on about it a lot. While you’re effortlessly juggling these variables, why not just factor in the relevant lateness of the couple?
20. Matt
I have to say, if I’m anywhere waiting for someone, and they’re late, I honestly don’t give a fuck. I don’t take it as a personal slight of any kind, I just take it that it means I will have to wait a little longer. I have been on time many, many times, and I also have been early, and late, as many times. I don’t freak out if someone is ten minutes late to meet me, and I don’t despair at my ineptitude if I’m a bit late to meet someone. It definitely doesn’t mean that one party’s time is more important than another.
Relax, get a drink, make a phone call, send a text, check your feedreader on your phone, whatever. They’ll come along sooner or later.
Buying a paper on the way is also an option. If you live in Ireland (like me), going outside for a cigarette is a great way to eat up five minutes, albeit perhaps not the most healthy one.
If I have to get a flight or whatever, I’m there on time, every time, because it’s a tremendous inconvenience to be late. If I miss my flight, I’m completely fucked. If I was late for a job interview, I wouldn’t get the job. More tremendous inconvenience. If I’m late to meet someone for a pint, or if they’re late to meet me, it’s a very, very slight inconvenience, and one I can live with. If they have an excuse, cool, if they don’t, whatever. If they’re late because they were watching the end of an episode of The Simpsons that they hadn’t seen before, that’s cool. If I’m late because I misjudged the traffic at the time I was leaving, fine. The only thing they can do wrong if they are, indeed late, is to not say “sorry I’m late”. Because that would be rude.
After that, all will be cool, and we’ll be having pints, dinner or whatever it is we’re meeting for, just a few minutes later than expected.
21. NKL
Arghhhh…NO NO NO. LATE IS NOT NICE. Irrespective of whether someone is late for a plane or for a drink. I always try to be on time and I generally am. I like others to try to be on time too. Otherwise why bother setting a time to meet?
Clearly being late is not confined to couples (as Matt kindly shows…!)
And as part of being a couple with Matt I dont let Matt make me late for something. If anything I make him early. So Adrian, couples works both ways…..
22. Adrian
Destructor, but that’s half the problem. I shouldn’t have to compensate for other peoples bad behaviour, and by doing that I’m encouraging it to get worse.
Matt, a few minutes late is not a problem. 10 minuets late is an annoyance. Anything after that starts to move to fucking irritating and then really exceedingly fucking irritating. I have waited over 45 minutes for people in a bar by myself. Telling me I should sit and relax and is not really a fair reason to excuse being late. And whilst people may not consciously be thinking their time is more important than someone else’s this is what is actually happening. Because subconsciously you’re busy doing your own stuff instead of considering that by being late you are impacting someone else or wasting someone else’s time
NKL, Exactly. Thank you. I’ll bet your folks installed the strong sense of punctuality in you? It’s definitely not confined to couples, and maybe it’s the result of me knowing very few single people anymore. I do think generally peoples behaviour has gotten worse as people seem not to think that punctuality is important any more (e.g. Matts comment), ad that people shouldn’t get upset by it.
23. Matt
In fairness, my entire comment is based on the assumption that whoever it is you are waiting for is between 5 and 15 minutes late. Waiting for over 45 minutes is a bit of a problem, I have to say. If I was going to be anywhere near as late as that, I wold definitely be ringing the person who was waiting for me (possibly more than once), apologising profusely, and probably buying them several drinks when I arrived to compensate. Or dinner.
That said, I can’t remember ever being 45 minutes late without having a real, honest reason (NKL, shaddup). I don’t see 10 minutes as being rude or a problem (if you know me, you’ll be ten minutes late as well). More than 15 or 20 though, that’s a tad inconsiderate, unless the baby shat all over you just as you were about to leave or something. And if that were to happen, you could ring the person who’s waiting for you and tell them, at least they can have a good laugh to themselves while they wait.
NKL’s folks did indeed instill (not install) a strong sense of punctuality in her. She always wants to be early. I unfortunately, have the lateness gene. Between us, we’re usually just about on time.
24. Adrian
10 minutes is normally ok, that’s life.
But if I’m mostly on time and you’re mostly 10 mins late, then you need to learn to get your arse in gear 10 mins early.
Because after a while always waiting 10 mins for someone does start to get a bit annoying.
25. Matt
If you’re mostly on time and I’m mostly ten minutes late, then maybe it would be best if you left your flat a few minutes later next time, just to see what happens.
If you’re always waiting ten or so minutes for the same person, then more fool you. Knoworimean?
Also, stop being always annoyed at everything.
26. Adrian
It shouldn’t be up to me to compensate for other peoples bad behavior.
27. graybo
Actually, Adrian, I think you’re way too stressed about this. Try relaxing, turning up ten minutes later and avoiding that heart attack that’s headed straight for you ;)
28. Adrian
But … wouldn’t that make me both rude and hypocritical?
29. Matt
Yes, it would make you both rude and hypocritical. And also sane. Life is all about compensating for other people’s bad behaviour. And your own. Being late may be rude, but endless moaning, complaining, stressing and freaking out about it is ruder, imho.
I’m sure there’s people out there who you know who are annoyed at you because you’re always on fucking time. That’s so annoying. You’re making them look bad.
Do an experiment: Don’t be on time for any social engagement for two weeks. You say in the last paragraph of the post that you’re going to do this, stop making the effort, so let’s see you follow that up. I guarantee no-one will mind (or even notice, as you say), and you’ll feel a lot better. And you’ll catch the end of that TV programme you’re watching.
30. Adrian
I think however that saying “I should alter my behavior to be late” rather than “other people should arrive on time” leads me to think “the world is going to shit”
31. Matt
“the world is going to shit”
That implies that people haven’t been late for thousands of years previous to now, and that rather it’s a recent development. The world isn’t going to shit, it’s always been shit, and always will be. Live with it.
There are times and a places to be exactly on time, for a flight or an interview, or for work, as examples. Being slightly tardy to a relaxed social engagement shouldn’t be the end of the world, and in a relaxed social engagement there definitely shouldn’t be as much pressure to be early or on time as there is in your professional life. I absolutely fucking HATE it when people are late when I’m working. When I’m not working, it’s completely different.
As graybo says, “try relaxing”. It’s good for you.
32. Adrian
Trying relaxing is whilst a true and good point, is not actually a solution.
Saying “this should bother you less” is fine, but not the same as saying “change your correct behavior to be the same as everyone else’s incorrect bad behavior”
33. Dragon
I’m with the “chill, dude!” crowd on this. I don’t think I’ve ever taken it as personally as you seem to be doing if someone else is late. The difference between now and, say, 15 years ago is that we have mobile phones which means if I or someone else is running late then I can get a good estimate about how late. If it’s going to be 10 minutes, that’s another pint. If it’s going to be longer and I’m in, say, Central London, then there are probably shops I can go and browse. No stress and maybe the added bonus of a new cd, dvd, clothes or even a book that I can then use to pass the time with. Along with another pint. If they’re going to be an hour or so late I might say “no worries, let’s do it another time”.
Oh, and the email I need to send about the several hundred grand project that will go tits up and cost me my job if I don’t write it is more important than you. Deal with it.
34. Adrian
But when it takes me 30-45 mins to get from Wandsworth Town to Central London, and you text me whilst I’m already on the train, then it’s already too late. And most of the time I don’t get a text.
And I’m really not talking about the big problems that occur (i.e. the project going tits up) I’m talking about that for some people something always seems to come up, something that always seems to sound to me like “I have an inability to plan”, because quite frankly … “I don’t care enough to bother”
35. The B
Oh come on, stop making us feel like awful human beings because of this one. It’s really not such a bad habit. Yes it’s inconsiderate, but those of us who do try and don’t mean to but a just a bit rubbish should surely be excused a little bit? Everyone’s got bad habits. My parents brought me up really well in some ways, but yes, they’re (well, at least one of them) really bad at being on time.
There are WORSE THINGS IN THE WORLD, surely?
36. Aiden
We all settle into certain behavioural patterns in relationships. If your late friends know that you’ll still be waiting in the pub when they turn up 45 minutes late, where’s their incentive to change this behaviour? Why not give them 15 minutes, then leave? Sure, it’s still annoying for you, but if they start to realise that you won’t be there after a certain grace period chances are they’ll start making the effort to show up earlier. After all, you’re important enough to them to make plans with in the first place, right?
And really - this post was about punctuality, not couples. That selected people use their coupled status as an excuse is not a good enough reason to generalise about the rest of us.
37. Adrian
Aiden, That’s a fair point. I guess it’s the dynamic between friends that changes when people are in couples and the punctuality thing is making me more aware of it.
And I would love to leave, and it’s a fair response, but then I land up with no plans …
B, You’re also right, there are worse things in the world, and it’s more the nature of a blog debate that is making this sound a bigger issue than it is. However that doesn’t mean that pointing out something as being bad, is a bad thing either. Theres a lot of things about myself that get pointed out and I normally take them on board … albeit sometimes slowly.
38. ella
i see lateness as a sign that the person who is late doesn’t care enough about the relationship (at whatever level) to make the effort needed to arrive on time.
some of my family are alwayss late and it is just rude. i dont see the point in saying “lets meet at 7” and them turning up 30 mins late with the excuse “you know i am always late”. why should i have to factor in the time that a particular person is averagely late by in my preparation/journey time? it is just nonsensical. if you cant get to a particular meeting point for 7pm, agree to 7.30pm and be there on time!
39. Aiden
It is rude to be substantially late, especially if it’s a habit, but ultimately you can’t control other people’s behaviour. Hopefully after a couple of nights of having no plans because of not waiting around it’ll be sorted either way - they’ll pick up their act, or you’ll decide they’re not worth the effort.
40. Mrs. X
I am feeling an enormous wave of guilt coming my way. I’ll be sure to meet up with it in about 45 minutes.