But almost 70% of young women believe it is "acceptable, if not fashionable" to be late on a first date because it makes them feel "less desperate" [How late is late]
sponsor: sevitzdotcom uses vzaar for all his video needs
vzaar: powering video
Add Video to your Website or blog today!
sign up for free!
1. Francesca
Wow, are modern manners really so poor ?
Being late on a first date is extremely rude, IMHO. It is a first date, and since this is a rather important one (whatever the New York Rules fools think about it), it is crass to leave your new date waiting unless you have an excellent and unavoidable reason.
As for desperation, it is a vibe. It will be immediately apparent as soon as the late date starts to gush apologies about being tardy. So much for having taken pains to be undesperately late, then.
2. Destructor
10 minutes and 17 seconds is not “late” in London. It’s early.
3. badly dubbed boy
If anyone is playing a game you don’t like, get up and leave.
Having said that, I’ve been 30 minutes late to an appointment before, in London. Easily done.
4. Adrian
I’m not saying it’s unacceptable to be late. Things happen.
I’m saying when 70% of people turn up for a date late deliberately, it’s playing games.
5. Francesca
I suppose I should clarify my earlier comments.
Being late to any appointment is acceptable with a good excuse. London has plenty just from public transport.
Deliberately being late for an appointment, especially for a first date, shows a distinct lack of manners. If this is employed as game playing strategy, it implies desperation it itself.
6. Des
I find it hard to believe that 70% of young women answered an open question (e.g. “what are your views on promptness on a first date?”) with exactly the same answer which the use of quotation marks implies.
It appears to me that to get this response it must have been a rigged closed question. e.g. “I think it is acceptable, if not fashionable, to be late on a first date because it makes me feel less desperate - Agree/disagree”
I’m also sure many of those answering may have meant “desperate” to mean they didn’t want to be sitting in a bar on their own waiting for someone to turn up, as this often invites unwanted attention (for men this is not normally a problem).
This is less to do with playing games with the prospective date as simply avoiding looking like a target for drunken chatups.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a woman to be a few minutes late so that they arrive second.
7. Adrian
Whilst I do agree with you on the question being closed and targeted I would be surprised if 30% of women did arrive (intentionally) on time for a first date. And the problem is as much the fact that people think it’s both fashionable or acceptable to be late for a first date as the fact they actually are.
In the few conventional first dates I have had, I have always arrived 5 or more minutes early. And always say around for at least 5 or more minutes after the scheduled time, waiting, wonder if she is going to show. If you see a guy in a bar, twitchy, nervous, looking at his watch a lot, sweaty palms, looking around frequently, either the mob is after him, or he’s meeting a girl for a first date, who hasn’t arrived yet.
I mean I understand why they are choosing to be late for the date, as it puts them in a position of power. They arrive; the guy is already there, nervous as all heck, on his 4th tequila (or whatever your choice of calming drink is). The girl is in the position of strength giving her advantage and control of the situation. The guy, as usual has no idea what’s going or why which I suppose is a fair indication of relationships anyway.
8. nrgza
The girls who pitch up late for dates intentionally are useless, and should be listed somewhere on a ‘bad girlfriend material’ database.
When I’m meeting up with someone for a date/coffee/anything that only involves two people I ensure I’m early as there’s nothing worse than waiting alone with no one to talk to.
9. stroppycow
Those 70% are just plain rude. Being late may occasionally be excusable but being late on purpose???? In my books being late conveys the following message “My time is more important than yours and what I was doing instead of being on time is more important/interesting than spending time with you and infinetely more important than what you may have been doing while you were waiting for me”.
10. Destructor
Oh, I love getting to things early and getting some time to read. I hate it when the other person shows up. Can’t you see I’m trying to read?
11. Green Fairy
‘The guy, as usual has no idea what’s going or why which I suppose is a fair indication of relationships anyway.’
Then you’ve been in the wrong ones.
And it doesn’t seem like they asked the guys the same question, but I imagine they would have answered in a similar fashion. The ability or desire to play games doesn’t depend on owning tits.
12. Adrian
No that’s not fair. Nothing wrong with the relationships I’ve been it. It’s just fairly universal that guys have no idea what’s going on in them. We’re simply not that complex.
And although playing games is not strictly limited to girls, I would say guys are far to busy being an arsehole to play games. Girls play games, guys are dicks.
I’ve been a dick many times in a relationship. And regret each and every time. However I don’t think I play games I really don’t. Half the time I’m too busy trying to figure out what’s going on or what just happened to play games. I wish I knew what game was being played so I could join in but I simply don’t.
I’ll also add that the girls I have landed up dating don’t to play games. Although that’s not to say I quite understand what’s going on all the time either. However trying to date is a minefield of trying to figure out what exactly is going on. And my bad habit of taking things at face value, just doesn’t seem to work.
13. nat
I’m sorry but to anyone who knows you, the ‘we’re simply not that complex’ is a complete lie. You have the ability to over-complicate (not to mention over analyse) things better than almost anyone I know.
14. Adrian
The fact I over complicate and over analyse doesn’t actually make me complicated. It makes me confused. Perhaps if I wasn’t so busy trying to figure out what was going on I wouldn’t do that so much.
I don’t think I play games, regardless of how complicated I may or may not be (and I really don’t think I’m that complicated). Still I’ve never had to try date me, so perhaps I am looking at this very one sidedly (in my particularly case, I stand by the original thrust generally). I would still say I have been an arse more often than I have played games.
15. Destructor
Girls play games, guys are dicks.
Are you sure you’re not just getting caught up in semantics?
Since I don’t really have the right to be offended on behalf of women, I’ll be offended on my own behalf: Your statement has the same effect on me as me saying: “South Africans are racist, sexist pigs.” might have on you. Just because it’s true in some cases does not make it okay to blanket-label everyone who falls into similar categories. It’s like exterminating the entire shark population because one of them happens to bite you.
I’m a decent guy who tries to avoid being a dick. Most of my male friends are similarly decent. Most of my female friends are decent, non-game-playing women. Please don’t lump us all into your little venn diagrams. We’re humans. We’re complex. Our gender is not our defining characteristic.
16. Adrian
This from the person who admitted to asking girls for their numbers and then not calling. That’s being a dick. And that’s my point. Girls have these complex rules of when it’s a good time to call (Sunday too early, Thursday to late, etc etc). Guys don’t call because we are dicks.
All I am saying (and this was meant to be a tongue in cheek, not overly serious post) was that girls seem to have these overly complex set of rules and what not, that I simply don’t understand. I really don’t. Where as guys just seem to be arses.
Sure it’s a generalisation. But that doesn’t mean that their isn’t some truth in it, and that doesn’t mean that nice guys don’t behave like dicks some of the time and nice girls don’t play games sometimes.
17. NKL
Thankyou Destructor - exactly what I was thinking but had not managed to get down in words. I am so fed up of hearing about the complexity/game playing/whatever of women etc etc etc that I cant even find it remotely funny anymore despite any glimmer of truth that can be found. Can we please give this a rest. Please.
18. Destructor
This from a guy who….wait, no, I won’t discuss things you tell me in private in a public forum. Muh.
If I wake up after a drunken night and there is a new number on my phone but I don’t recall who gave it to me, I think it’s safe to say that I’m doing the owner of that number a favour if I don’t call it. How is that being a dick? And what does that have to do with my gender?
If a girl takes your number and doesn’t call, she’s ‘playing a game’. If you take a girls number and decide you don’t want to take things any further (Jesus, it’s just taking a number for crying out loud, it’s not like you’ve sworn on your mother to call it), you’re ‘being a dick’.
Like I said: Semantics. You’re just putting different labels on to the same thing. Gender has nothing to do with it.
19. Adrian
No I don’t think it has semantics. Men and women have different behavioural patterns. We’re wired differently. Medical evidence supports that.
I don’t think it’s unrealistic to assume to a combination of different biological wiring and different social engineering gives rise to different behaviour. None more so apparent than in the game we call dating.
My observation and experience has taught me that these differences (generally speaking) show themselves in different ways. I’ve chosen to characterise those those differences with the behaviour that I have observed, experience and from the way I have acted myself. And that guys can have more tendencies to behave thoughtlessly or like dicks. And girls have a propensity to have these complex rules and play games.
So back to the original thing about being late. I would more readily believe a guy was late for a date, just because he was off doing something and didn’t think that it was important to be on time. Dick. If a girl is late it’s because she wanted to be the second one to arrive, because it’s better and more fashionable that way. Playing games. Etc etc.
That doesn’t mean it’s always true. Just that my observation and experience has lead me to believe that guys and girls have different behavioural patterns that are more susceptible to fall into.
I myself have been a dick often enough (which I do regret). I don’t think I play games all that often.
20. Destructor
ref. Nat’s post about you overcomplicating things.
You’re pointing at two identical things (being late), and based on the flimsiest of evidence you’re assigning them entirely different motivations, according to gender, when in reality gender has nothing to do with it. I don’t know a single woman, no, scratch that, I don’t know a single person who would intentionally delay showing up to a date in order to play some bizarre and probably pointless mind trick.
If you know such a person, address them as an individual. Don’t curse their whole gender because of an individual’s trait.
21. Adrian
Well 70% of women surveyed said so. That’s quite a high number even when you account for the vagarities of a survey.
And again I’ll say that I think different genders have different behavioural patterns. Gender has plenty to do with it.
22. Destructor
Lies, damned lies and statistics, I say to you sir!
The survey did not give the statistic behind how men answered the question, making your gender bias fairly specious reasoning.
As Des pointed out, the survey may have been worded in a particular way in order to encourage a desired response, as many (if not all) surveys are. They don’t even list how many respondents were interviewed, or where they were found.
23. nat
ouch - speaking from personal experience - i would turn up 10 mins late NOT to play mind games or any other sort of game, but simply because i happen not to want to sit in a bar by myself. Thats not a game - or is that what you would define as a woman playing a game?
24. Adrian
Why assume the guy is going to be late? It’s only on that assumption that you’re then turning up late. Would you also turn up 10 minutes late to meet a girl friend?
25. James
What personal experience is that, Nat? How often do you go on first dates?
[PS this isn’t really James]