A reply in a conversation with Dan about something else entirely
When I was 19 or so (i.e. anywhere between 17-20 I can't recall) I went on a Ninjitsu (shuddup,it was a recognised martial art) Mind Camp.
We did this exercise over the weekend (or 3 days) where at the start we had to find a stick and carry it with us at all times. We then had to pick a task to achieve. Mine was good marks or something. Then the whole weekend we did these exercises while focussing on the stick where for example, we wondered around and grabbed a random person, and for 40 mins they kept asking us "why" we wanted to achieve that or "how" we were going to do this etc etc. These exercises (loads of different ones but related to achieving this task) were done intermittently with other eastern mind philosophy and martial arts training.
At the end of the weekend we had a big bonfire and all tossed our sticks into it. We were told that our task was achieved. That the burning of the stick illustrated how the task was done, it was gone, it was complete. All we had to go do now was "actually physically go do it" which was considered pretty minor since in REALITY the task was ACTUALLY DONE.
The point I'm trying to make, is that if you have done it in your head, if something is done, the physical merely is a minor actually to get out of the way, because the task is actually done.
Analogy: On the ski slopes, you could jump ridiculous jumps because in your head it was actually done. Actually doing the jump was a minor inconvenience. The same was true for me when I did the jump on the last day (although landing was a major inconvenience because I hadn't done that bit in my head). When I got stuck on the slopes two days earlier, the problem was in my head I couldn't do it. So physically it becomes impossible.
A task is done when you achieve it in your head. Physically performing the action is merely confirms this, and is not the actual achievement itself.
1. Destructor
In my minds eye, I could see myself landing the jump. In reality, I failed to make the jump several times (video proof available), until I figured out how to land it. And even then it was tough.
2. Princess of Darkness
Ergo: if the task is already theoretically done, why go through with completing it in actuality?
It’s a philosophy I apply in my everyday life with vigor.
3. Tol
Ooh, that sounds terribly Brin Morgan (google for him). Was the camp enormously overpriced, and somewhere in the West Country? If he managed to add some wurbling about the taizokai and kongokai mandalas, that’s the man. While his taijutsu is competent, he’s recognised in the art as having somewhat a merchant’s heart about his training, and tends to cash in on the ninja mental powers myth with expensive courses that mix basic self-help techniques with an ‘Esoteric Buddhism for Dummies’ intro, and some aspects of basic (para)military survivalism. While he regularly trains with Hatsumi Sensei, and he’s highly ranked, having been to several Tai Kais, and out to Noda to train with Hatsumi myself, what Brin punts out on his Shadow Warrior Network weekends bears very little resemblance to training with the Boss himself… ‘Recognised Martial Art’? We prefer not… Plenty of martial arts historians deny that there is any Ninjutsu training going on in modern times. Given its origins, that suits modern day ninjas just fine. People don’t try and ban your art, or challenge you to macho contests, if they don’t believe you actually exist any more…
4. Adrian
After googling, yes that seem like the guy. It was in SA sometime in the early ’90s I think.
And although I agree some of the philosophy might be a bit ‘iffy’, I was more using the example of the camp to illustrate a point.
The point being, that the physical manifestation of an action is a minor point in the reality of the action which normally offers some time prior.
5. Katherine
The mental bit is usually the most important part of any challenge - ski jumps, school exams, learning to ride a horse - but if you don’t do the physical bit too then it still doesn’t work out. All parts are needed; no point in just doing it in your head if you don’t follow through with the real action. I know that however hard I visualise being fluent in Chinese, if I don’t sit down and just learn lists of words, I will never be able to say anything more than “hello”.
6. Adrian
I’m not saying the physical bit doesn’t actualy have to be done. But once it’s done in the head, it’s done to the point it will be done physically, and hence the physical becomes minor. The physical realisation of an event is trivial. It’s the head space that counts.
This was the whole point of the mind camp, that by accomplishing the task mentally, the going out and doing it becomes easy, almost inconsequential.
The point I was trying to illustrate to Dan, is that the effect can precede the physical cause. That a state of being can exist before one has actually initiated the real world action to realise the state of being itself.
Another analogy: Someone in the office resigns. Sometimes it’s obvious that they quit their job, because it was apparent to all that they had quit their job before they actually handed in their notice. Their heart wasn’t in it, they weren’t really there, the job wasn’t right. The actual act of handing in their resignation isn’t when the job got quit, but 1 week, 1 month, whatever earlier when the ‘bit’ in their head got flicked.
I’m saying that marker for when an event occurs, occurs in head space rather than in the physical reality we like to accept as the defining baseline.
7. Karen
What nonsense, Sevitz! But big congratulations on the promotion.