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I’m still undecided on this one but excellently done!

Stu Dent, name sounds familiar but just can’t put a face to the name.

Stu’s grandma was wondering the following though. If Stu is really going to make that much more money with the van than he would without then Stu is going to pay a bigger share of his proceeds to the manufacturer than somebody who does not have a van and does not sell loads of apple. It seems unfair that if Stu bums around instead of making the most of his business he will not only have to pay anything but if he does really well he will have to pay the money back really quick and pay a bigger share of his profit away, effectively paying twice for his univan.

Woah! That needed an unnatural amount of brainpower on my behalf. I just don’t understand why some people seem to think that just because you’ve got a UniVan that you must be earning loads of money. I’m certainly not sigh

I’m doing so well that I have a DuoVan.

But then some bright spark would realise that though people wanted to eat Golden Delicious, they could still sell more of Granny Smith’s if only they priced it lower. Soon, everyone was selling Granny Smith’s because it was uneconomic to produce and sell Golden Delicious. The real problem, though, was that none of the consumers ever got to try an Orange because it was too expensive to produce that type of UniVan.

(OK I can hear the metaphore screaming in agony, but the prospect of an /entire/ generation reading Media Studies to too horrific to contemplate - and besides I like a pineapple from time to time)

Excellent. Nice analogy. I’m with you on this one. The way some people are reacting you’d think students were being asked to pay the full costs of their university education rather than just a portion of it.

As I’ve said elsewhere, I think completely free education should end at the point where most of the population can’t take it. That means that people in higher education should be prepared to pay towards it.

UniVans can also be taken on the Open road, where you pay in advance - a fraction of the cost - and still are able to work. Hence, you don’t work up lots of debt to be paid either when you start selling your apples - or by your parents whilst you are still waiting for your UniVan delivery. I think I followed the analogy correctly. You’d think now I am no longer a Stu Dent I’d be able to do things like this. Ah well…

Stu ends up paying twice if he works hard and earns loads with his univan because the more he earns the more taxes he pays. If it is true that having a university education means that you will gain financial advantage then surely it is in the interest of the state that more people have a university education so that more people pay more taxes in absolute terms. They not only repay for the benefits afforded by a superior education through more taxes but they also tend on average to cost the state less money by being “on benefits” for shorter periods, suffering from less deprivation linked diseases, retiring later and generally having offspring who are more likely to be succesful in later life than that of less well educated parents. So it is less a case of wanting something for free than a case of feeling the state is not beeing entirely logic/honest in its reasoning.

Some questions questions: a) Whatever happended to sponsored Univans? (b) To what extent is the number of apples you sell related to your Univan? (c) a Univan is not a licence to sell Apples, what happens to those who decide to just watch them grow? (d) What if the Univan is used to sell apples in a foreign markets? Is the Univan then free?

On (d) I agree, but seeing as how I am in that category and now have to be considered an Apfelverkaufer I wonder how it might be practically / fairly applied (particualrly as I have to pay a higher commission here for selling my apples!). Aren’t metaphors wonderful? What’s the next subject?

Why dont you just have different taxation bands attached to your earnings to fund high edu. so the more apples you sell the more you pay, but not just taxing the rich but having diff bands for the middle class’ and working class’. But why other people should pay for obvious gain to the econemy that higher edu brings, hmm cause raises te standard of living and gives oppertunity to students from any social class or background. Not having univan setting the price of the van to what ever they want by 2010, so if you earn 25-30 grand a year you not only pay twice but you do it for the rest of your life. Which do you think is ‘fair’taxing us out of education or actually educating us.

The who will pay, the general tax payer does not want to pay so the stu dent must pay twice which they don’t want. so i’ve come the conclusion so make old people pay i mean what do they do anway give them apples and oranges as a reward. Maybe thats a bit harsh how about kids we should make the kids pay after all there the ones that a going to benifit form are money ,and are time and of coarse are apples, yes rob those little critters of their pocket money, but what, maybe the middle aged generation will benifit with higher pensions. We will benifit with higher pensions, but hey if everyone doesn’t pay then why should anyone pay at tall after all why educate us let the uni’s crumble why try educating this country. Or maybe we should just get pepsi to sponsor are schools like in the good old US of A, so are univan kids can speak 2or3 different language’s but cant conduct any trade in any country because they’ve got no teeth. Or maybe after all that we could just introduce some stealth taxes, on ,on motorists yes lets tax those por b-stards again. Think that would work huh….? So why should you pay? Cause capitalism is a greed culture and in are pursuit of the ‘money god’ we have forgotten the true nature of education, not as tool for greed but the evolutionary process of man to beter our selves and this society into a non eliteist one. to have the freedom to learn and to be given the hope or chance of change. For some people money is their life’s motivation (a small ‘degree’ of sadnness has struck me, like a parking fine)and these people I pitty, but having a the chance of a good and free education will taste a little sweeter in the mouths of future generation than a rotten apple.

Sorry but your site would’nt let me enter my comments with out a e-mail address, and i don’t like giving out my e-mail to site’s “damn junk mail”. Any way ‘We live in a free market economy’ controlled by muti national corps but I don’t have a problem with capitalism just the way it is implimentented in the west mainly the USA. I surpose thats the greatist fear to end up with company sponsored institutions such as education and even the BBC. The large majority almost came back and bit it in the arse, Labour that is (the modern dictatorship with 173 maj i think?) needs to have better scrutiny procedures in place if it’s true motives are to be establish. For example war on Iraq talks with Cliton on how to pay for education i guest the idea of an american style eu system scares me I mean look at the yanks. Someone does have to pay, no all of us have to pay and if all else fails Tony can put a tax on windows that if a high edu tax is’nt preferable. “So don’t decry today education as being elitist when it is the least elitist it has ever been, just because it needs to be paid for.” Yes it is the least elitist education we have ever had and by 2010 when fees are increased we shall be back to the begining ( of the modern edu system) and yes standards will be improved if mummy and daddy can pay £60,000 for your good degree, the same standard of degree as a lesser established uni but the £60’000 degree is there to beat down that pathetic £10,000 degree with it’s metaphorical money stick off mummy and daddies money tree.(probably planted in indus rev) And if your daddy is unable to aford education for his children, your screwed, yiu the child deterred form higher education due to lack of jobs and increased fees as 50% of us have dgrees and the actual value of them is steadily decreasing as the rates for top uni’s is steadily increasing. And the top-middle class will become to new for of heritical lords and the socail mobility that was present a few years ago takes a blow from that money stick right arround the kneecaps. what about grants for ‘poor’ students, yes a very good idea and for the low middle class’s, drum roll please, nothing yes a big fat zero so these are the people that will pay for there education these are the people that could’nt earn (intellectually) their right for a good education. After all if degree’s are the same the govt may grant the student £1500 to go to their local uni knowing their grades could of got them into oxford and all along the brightist minds of society are not being educated by a best institution in this country where is the benifit for us then? “God bless this country God bless social class God bless money”.